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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Cargo container house, starting from scratch. |
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My name is Jason, i'm 30 yrs old, and I'm about to buy my first home. there's lots of options out there for a guy like me in a market like this but I'm leaning twords building a cargo container house.
Problem is i have no clue where to start.
So far i've seen many inspiring pictures and articles on the subject, but I haven't yet been able to find a step by step "tutorial" for a guy like myself who wants to get started.
I've managed to find a business that deals in used ISO's here localy and I can obtain them for a very reasonable price. I have a general plan for a simple yet effective home which I can add onto in the future, but no clue as to who i'd need to contact in regaurds to building this type of structure.
From what i've gathered so far i must adhere to the basic building codes implimented by the fed, and then of course all the state and local codes as well.
Other than that i'm completely lost and in need of some direction.
What I'd realy love to look into is the angle of getting any sort of grants or free money and/or low/no intrest loans for building a "green" home.
My biggest concern is the definition of "green housing" and how it would apply to this type of home. The concern being the thermal properties of a steel box and how it almost seems to fly in the face of energy efficiency.
I realise that the recycled aspect of the building material itself is a big plus, but the fact that the entire structure being a thermal bridge would almost negate the whole concept without a ton of insulation.
The fact that one can easily construct a good sized home out of 4 $2000 ISO's is a definate bonus... but will the added cost of fabrication and retrofitting negate these savings? Or is this truely the "next big thing in green housing"?
I know a guy who builds/fixes ships and cargo containers for a living... he comes with all the welding and cutting equipment/knowledge/and experience one could hope for. I also work for a construction company so materials and labor will be coming at a considerable discount.
I've got lots of things working in my favor, so this is definatley the direction i've decided on... but what should i do next?
Any help anyone can provide would be huge right now because I'm basicly flying blind.
Ok just to give you a general idea of the design i have in mind i'm going to use 4 of the 40 foot ISO's to construct a 2 story square dwelling. Each floor will be layed out in this fashion.
set two containers parrell on concrete pillars about 40 feet apart, remove the "interior" walls. use them to make the walls connecting the two containers. The next floor would be a duplicate of the first only turned 90 degrees and placed directly on top. A traditional pyramidal shaped roof with long overhangs would be utilised to provide more shade in the summer time to keep as much sun off of it as possible in the summer.
As per the insulation i plan on studding out the interior, running my electric, then spray/foaming all the exterior walls with expanding foam. once i have that trimmed back to studs i'd be drywalling it.
exterior finish would most likely be a aplication of tyvek house wrap, then furring strips to accomidate an aplication of insulated vinyl siding.
So...
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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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well
ok then...can someone at least point me in the right direction?
google was under the impression this forum would offer tips on green home design and construction...i realy need to find out as much as possible, as soon as possible.
i can't stand paying rent for nothing anymore...it's just pointless to pay someone else's mortgage. |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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you mean pay the interest on their principle just as you would be doing on what would be your own property?
all your bases are belong to the bank
i would say start with a metal cutting blade and a jigsaw ?
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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Antisthenes wrote: | you mean pay the interest on their principle just as you would be doing on what would be your own property?
all your bases are belong to the bank
i would say start with a metal cutting blade and a jigsaw ? |
now thats funny...never thought i'd see that quote on an architecture forum.
basicly it's like this...
i'm not exactly independantly wealthy, so cheap affordable housing is what i'm most interested in for financial reasons. buying someone's nightmare (foreclosure) is not something i'm wanting to deal with.
the only advantage of buying a preexisting home is the low PMI no money down low intrest rate morgatges available to first time homeowners.
unfortunatley a construction loan for a first time homeowner is a rare breed.
the advantage of cargo container housing is once i get the locks on the doors the thing is worth exponentialy more than what i would potentialy borrow to construct it.
one of the rare "instant equity" scenario's out there.
even better if there are any grants, or "special" loans available for building a "green" home.
again...not even sure if a shipping container house would qualify as a "green build" due to the insulation properties of the structure.
highly energy efficient it is not, but cheap, and recycled it is.
so do they offset, or will i need to go through additional steps (solar pannels, max use of natrural lighting, ect...to qualify.
basicly i'm a complete noob to this whole process and i was genuinely hoping to speak to some guys and gals who know what they are doing and wouldn't mind lending a helping hand to someone attempting to do something unconventional.
i need a little guidance, and i'm turning to teh intrawebz for help.
i'd love to build a nice simple 4 40 foot design with a pyramid roof.
the design i have sketched up is cheap and useable and would create a nice 40x40 2 story much cheaper than traditional construction.
so a bank should be interested in the possibility of me defaulting and turning them a nice proffit on auction day.
it would help if there's free money out there for houses like this.
and it'd be much easier if i knew more about what i'm attempting to accomplish.
if anyone has any help to lend or experience to post...please do. i have a feeling i'm gonna need to do a lot of digging and research before i try to go talk to a bank. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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40 x 40 two story house. My construction master calculator isn't on my desk for a sqft calc at this time. But my best guess says this is a big house built by big dreams. Start off with old grain silo for practice.
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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| djswan wrote: | | 40 x 40 two story house. My construction master calculator isn't on my desk for a sqft calc at this time. But my best guess says this is a big house built by big dreams. Start off with old grain silo for practice. |
well as i said the construction would be simple enough, it's the insulation and finishing that would be the tricky part.
2 story 40 x40 with a pyramid roof isn't exactly huge. yes it's a decient sized house, but if you are building a home you don't want some small shanty, you want a nice place to call home. a place i can invite friends and family over to and have room for everyone...
i've got everything sketched out where i'd want it, but it's on paper. is there an easy free program i can use to sketch things up to post here for critique? trying to make accurate drawings in MSpaint isn't exactly easy.
my best guess would be to use expanding foam or blown in cellulouse, but again i have no clue what i'd be looking at from there or if thats even the best way to go.
is there anyone here experienced in bulding a shipping container house that can give me some pointers? |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1859
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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How am I doing so far
Not very good to be honest.
I think if you will look at existing houses built with these things you will find high end houses and not budget houses. There are no great incentives for building green so you are on your own there. It sounds like a 3200sq.ft. cargo container and vinyl McMansion anyway, where does the green part come from?
I guess just get a big pile of money and go find a builder that wants it would be my advice.
I might at least give you some credit for having a green thought but then I suspect the only reason was: "What I'd realy love to look into is the angle of getting any sort of grants or free money and/or low/no intrest loans for building a "green" home."
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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| csintexas wrote: | How am I doing so far
Not very good to be honest.
I think if you will look at existing houses built with these things you will find high end houses and not budget houses. There are no great incentives for building green so you are on your own there. It sounds like a 3200sq.ft. cargo container and vinyl McMansion anyway, where does the green part come from?
I guess just get a big pile of money and go find a builder that wants it would be my advice.
I might at least give you some credit for having a green thought but then I suspect the only reason was: "What I'd realy love to look into is the angle of getting any sort of grants or free money and/or low/no intrest loans for building a "green" home." |
i'd be lying if i said the idea of free money or grants to build a home of this type wouldn't be nice. who the hell doesn't want free money? but thats not the main concern. my motivations are as follows...
1. stop paying money for nothing (rent)
2. build a cool house for cheap (cargo containers?)
anything beyond that are afterthoughts.
here inthe US we have this insane trade deficit which means these shipping containers are piling up in our ports and being sold for dirt cheap. these things are designed to be airtight, weather/water proof, and solid as hell. the situation we see in this "market" is it's much cheaper to manufacture brand new shipping containers in china, and ship them here full, than to ship the empties back.
so thats what they do, they manufacture them by the hundreds, fill them up, and send them as fast as they can to keep up with our countries rabid consumerism.
so the question is what the heck do you do with hundreds of thousands of brand new steel boxes?
gee i dunno how bout build some freakin houses 
i figure i always loved lego's as a kid so why the heck not... just stack em up, weld em together, and live in it.
at the price of $1,500 - $2,000 delivered on site for a 40x8x8 shipping container you can imagine the possibilities are rather endless. all over europe and the west coast, as i type, there are houses/apartments/neighborhoods being built out of these things.
wanna get interested...google image "container house"
the orange one with the glass sides is amazing.
so without going overboard like some of these designers have been i was trying to dream up the cheapest most economical way to slap 4 of these things together and call it a home.
the cheaper the better.
i'd imagine that homes like this will be gaining in popularity...if the trends stay current the shipping containers will continue to pile up, home values will continue to plummet, more and more people will be looking to build a home...
i'm trying to be ahead of the curve if there is one.
but again...the overall goal here is to buildmy first home, and build it for cheap. if i can build it out of shipping containers it would save me quite a bit on inital construction and once it's shelled andthe locks are installed i get insta equity and can turn around and finish it.
by the time i'm done it should be worth at least double what it costs to build...some of these homes are being apraised at 4x, 5x, or more of the cost of construction...rather than the opposite as is the case in most stick built homes.
bottom line, i think this 4 box design is just about the easiest one to build that would give me the most ammount of square footage and the least ammount of waste and/or surpluss material cost.
recycled material, efficient design, as green as possible (other than the thermal bridge i'd be working against of the steel)...
i'd say thats "green".
i guess i'm guilty of having self serviant motives...lets be honest i'm not building this house for al gore or a bunch of back packers...it's gonna be my house. building something for yourself is just about as selfish as it gets but it's a necessity. i need a place to live. just because i inquired about getting the house built via grants doesn't mean i don't have good motives.
i could just be like every other american idol watching suburbanite in thier cookie cutter stick built mini mansions sucking down frapachinos and taking the kids to soccer practice in the H3...
but i'm not.
i'm just a 30 year old guy trying to build a good house cheap out of recycled shipping containers. |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1859
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly shipping containers (if they can no longer be used as shipping containers) would be green.
Many were built in China for $2,300 each, but it costs $900 to return one empty from America's East Coast.
If these numbers are correct it saves at least $1400 every time one is reused. So what is the benefit of letting them stack up unused? Particularly when the ship would otherwise have to sail back to China empty?
Almost all the houses in the search are concepts and not real.
Here is one: http://www.quik-build.com/quikHouse/QH_main.htm
The Quik House will cost between $125 and $165 per square foot including everything except land.
So your 3200sq.ft, house would cost somewhere between 400-528 thousand plus land. But that is a design that has already been used. If you want a new design I would guess closer to 528+++ (unless you just go out somewhere where there are no building codes and do it yourself)
There isn't any such thing as a "green" 3200 sq.ft. house. The best you could do is make one a bit more energy efficient. And unless your building it in some extremely moderate climate I don't see that happening.
I want to see this house that sold for 4-5x the build cost.
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dave72
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't there a LEED requirement that the product must be manufactured within a 500 mile radius of the project site in order to get LEED or green building points?
Being the containers were made in China, you'd lose those points... |
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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| csintexas wrote: | Certainly shipping containers (if they can no longer be used as shipping containers) would be green.
Many were built in China for $2,300 each, but it costs $900 to return one empty from America's East Coast.
If these numbers are correct it saves at least $1400 every time one is reused. So what is the benefit of letting them stack up unused? Particularly when the ship would otherwise have to sail back to China empty?
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http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01/shipping_contai.php
also
http://www.architectureandhygiene.com/main.html
and
http://www.architectureandhygiene.com/12conHouse/12con_main.html
everything i'm reading is in direct contrast of what you are saying...
again, these are being built all over the place, just not here yet for some reason.
i literaly recorded the nightly news a few sundays ago where they said "it's cheaper to build new ones in china than to ship them back".
in fact i think something was said to the effect of "container ships not being designed to carry empty boxes in high seas."
| dave72 wrote: | Isn't there a LEED requirement that the product must be manufactured within a 500 mile radius of the project site in order to get LEED or green building points?
Being the containers were made in China, you'd lose those points... |
thanks for the tip, and yeah, no way it would qualify for that.
if anyone wants to get as amped up as i am about this click here and start watching vids... people are doing some amazing things withthese.
http://ca.youtube.com/results?search_query=container+house&search_type=&aq=f
http://ca.youtube.com/results?search_query=container+homes&search_type=&aq=0&oq=container+home |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1859
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01/shipping_contai.php
that's just a bunch of renderings
http://www.architectureandhygiene.com/main.html
http://www.architectureandhygiene.com/12conHouse/12con_main.html
that's one of a few real projects I found and where I got the cost estimates.
in fact i think something was said to the effect of "container ships not being designed to carry empty boxes in high seas."
Well it seems to me that if I had a whole pile of shipping containers sitting around rotting and taking up space that I would probably be willing to give them to anyone who would haul them off or I would sell them to a salvage yard. If they are selling for two thousand dollars that means they are valuable to people.
Well, like I said it probably isn't all that green and it isn't cheap. They are pretty cool though as long as you don't go and hang vinyl siding on them. Sure if you are a young architect and want to make art than this is as good a way to do that as I have seen. Go for it.
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lekizz
millennium club
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1073
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Well done for ...erm ....thinking out of the box, so to speak 
Personally I think shipping container houses are a great idea. There are some more interesting examples on this blog: http://www.crookedbrains.net/2008/05/containers.html - I particularly like the multi-storey "Freitag" showroom in Switzerland! There is also a well-established "Container City" opposite the Millennium Dome in the London docklands, but obviouly these industrial or utilitarian sites lend themselves well to the aesthetic of metal shipping containers.
csintexas speaks some sense when he says there are many other costs, apart from the price of the basic structure of a house. And I expect you will need quite a bit of ingenuity to get your plans passed by a local planning committee, especially if your plot is in a traditional residential area. Personally I don't think it makes any sense to construct your home from watertight, bombproof etc shipping containers and then stick a traditional McMansion pitched roof on top. My advice would be to take your ideas to an expert, or maybe a young and enthusiastic local architect if there is noone locally with specific experience in this type of construction. I remember seeing a post in Designcommunity last year, advertising someone who specialises in container homes. It will take more than a few scribbles on the back of a postcard to create your house! |
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ST1DinOH
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| lekizz wrote: | Well done for ...erm ....thinking out of the box, so to speak
Personally I think shipping container houses are a great idea. There are some more interesting examples on this blog: http://www.crookedbrains.net/2008/05/containers.html - I particularly like the multi-storey "Freitag" showroom in Switzerland! There is also a well-established "Container City" opposite the Millennium Dome in the London docklands, but obviouly these industrial or utilitarian sites lend themselves well to the aesthetic of metal shipping containers.
csintexas speaks some sense when he says there are many other costs, apart from the price of the basic structure of a house. And I expect you will need quite a bit of ingenuity to get your plans passed by a local planning committee, especially if your plot is in a traditional residential area. Personally I don't think it makes any sense to construct your home from watertight, bombproof etc shipping containers and then stick a traditional McMansion pitched roof on top. My advice would be to take your ideas to an expert, or maybe a young and enthusiastic local architect if there is noone locally with specific experience in this type of construction. I remember seeing a post in Designcommunity last year, advertising someone who specialises in container homes. It will take more than a few scribbles on the back of a postcard to create your house! |
thank you for the tips...
i love the mutli color apartment complex they built in london, the show i saw on the news about it suprised the hell out of me. onthe outside they look very bland but the interiors were all very modern and spacious. the inital thought of living in a steel box makes you think each room would be restricted to the long narrow dimensions of the actual containers...but they slice them up anyway they can imagne and create perfect living spaces out of them.
some of the qualms i've noticed in most of these designs is the circular windows. as a home improvement company sales manager i tend to know a thing or two about windows...window sales are our primary proffit source so we tend to market heavily on them. i figure there has got to be a reason why the round windows are so commonly used dispite thier astectic and functionality drawbacks.
not to mention cost for "uncommon" sized/shaped windows, especially if they are not a fixed pane.
if anyone has an opinion on this i'd love to get some feedback as to why they are using them...
my only thought is possibly something to do with the structual aspects of the corregated sheeting, or possibly due to theme astetics (as if to mimmick "porthole" windows as would be seen on the cargo container ships that carry the boxes). other than thoes two possibilities i can't imagine what would be responsibly for thier commonality.
the plot i'm considering would be a wooded rural location. i need to select a site thats remote enough for me to get ATF approved for an on site type-54 storage locker to store pyrotechnics (i'm an amature hobbyist and aspiring pyrotnch display technician in training). if/when my little side business takes off i'll need the house to be located far out in the country enough so that i'll be able to place the bunker off away from any non-private road.
the construction of the bunker would require earthen walls to encase the three sides of the bunker, with the top left open for venting. it'd be nice if i were able to soften the landscape a bit by incorporating a semi earthen home design. if i were to bury at least the 1st floor 1/2 or 2/3 the way up this would definatley help offset the energy efficiency problem as well as help to mesh the house to the ugly storage bunker.
are there any other ideas you guys can think of that would be bennifical to a container house, or things i should definatley avoid when designing this house?
also the more i visualize the shingled roof on a stack of shipping containers the more i agree with you it wouldn't look right.
possibly keep it flat-ish with a very shallow pitch using some standing seam metal roofing, i'd like to be able to toss some solar pannels onthe top eventually, i have a feeling this area is gonna make some big news here soon with this new xun guy from UT opening up another photovoltaic manufacturing facility here in toledo.
that'll be 3 big plants all within 100 miles of each other, should be exciting.
if they being to pump out the new tripple layer cells this area would be home to cheap available cuting edge solar cell tech, so i'd be nice to plan ahead with that in mind.
i've watched the pbs shows every sunday for as long as i can remember. between bob and the this old house crew i have a good sense of common practices and material but i'd imagine i'll have to incorporate many more unconventional methods aside from the obvious container shell concept. i have no clue how'd i do the floors.
the standard shipping containers have an interior height of 7.8576 feet. once you account for the floor and celing finishing things start to get cramped. i'm a tall dude, i don't want to develop a hump back living in my house . so one of these hurdles is how to minimise lost space yet still retain some soundproofing and insulating properties.
i'm thinking all wood floors (probably a pergo type material) with radiant heat running under over the metal surface for added heat dispersion aside from the reflective metal channel in traditional looped radiant heated floors.
probably plumb the whole thing with that expandable tubing stuff, this way i can do it myself. same goes for the drywalling and the pergo. but i don't trust myself with the electric.
just out of curiosity...which design would heat and cool more efficiently in the NW ohio climate...a 2 story or a rectangular ranch?
is there a general rule of thumb there? and if so would the thermal properties of the structure change or bend that principal?
would many windows (for maximum available light) or minimal windows (better insulating properties) be better for a design like this?
i'm not expecting anyone here to be an expert on this specific situation, just hoping for some opinions from a group of guys who probably know a hell of a lot more about these questions than me.
i hope i'm not bothering you guys or garbaging up your forums with a bucnh of noob question, i'm just eager to soak up as much knowledge and ideas as i can to make this lil dream of mine a reality.
thanks in advance to anyone who's willing to lend some advice. |
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twhaan
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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You might find this book usefull. I haven't read it yet, but I have already ordered it: "Intermodal Shipping Container Small Steel Buildings"
by Paul Sawyers http://www.lulu.com/content/114565. I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm almost 30. I have a mortgage, but 3/4 of the money I put into it just go to taxes and interest. I feel like I'm busting my hump just to make the bank rich. I looked into using a steel arch building as a cheap frame for a house, but the cost was still going to be higher than I wanted to pay. Then I stumbled on these sites for shipping container houses and got hooked. I think the insulation problem can be overcome (in a green way) by covering the containers with earth. I've been trying to figure out how viable that is, but there's just as little information on earth covered houses as there is on shipping container houses. You keep finding the same 3 pictures and sales pitches everywhere you go. Anyway, if you find out any more information you should share it. Like you, I need all the help I can get figuring this out. |
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