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csintexas
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 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: More examples of LEED buildings |
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What about this one:
Bank of America Tower (New York)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Tower_%28New_York_City%29
Is this really the most efficient way to provide workspace for people? Will this be above water level in 100 years? What about Cleveland -Isn't there a lot of vacant office space there? Does it really make since to build this high or is this just corporate image? Does it make since to have so many in one geographic location? What is the fuel source for the on site power plant? Floor to ceiling glass is good?
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Chris Stewart
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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is your intention to insult? i could see you doing your own research
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csintexas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Would you please start reading the threads before you make comments.
I started this thread on Kevin's suggestion that we discuss the merits of the LEED program.
You have a problem with that or do you just want to keep going around making useless comments???
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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well state what you know already then, it seems the way you ask the questions you already know the answers, why hold out?
maybe i can hijack your thread and insert a LEED project worked on with my office. a building at NAU or this site http://www.egreenideas.com/ of the top green LEEDs consultant. i toured that Scottsdale senior center(on the right site of the site), amazing chiller systems that gives substantial savings, and nice integrated solar.
i am interested to hear the answers of course about green skyscrapers.
but not in the so far arrogant approach you have taken towards me it is to neither of our benefits.
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Last edited by Antisthenes on Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Environmental Features
Bank of America Tower construction site, as seen from the corner of 42nd Street and Sixth Avenue. July 10, 2006.
Bank of America Tower construction site, as seen from the corner of 42nd Street and Sixth Avenue. July 10, 2006.
Building site of Bank of America Tower, seen from Bryant Park
Building site of Bank of America Tower, seen from Bryant Park
The design of the building will make it environmentally friendly, using technologies such as floor-to-ceiling insulating glass to contain heat and maximize natural light, and an automatic daylight dimming system. The tower also features a greywater system, which captures rainwater and reuses it. Bank of America also states that the building will be made largely of recycled and recyclable materials.[2] Air entering the building will be filtered, as is common, but the air exhausted will be cleaned as well, making the tower a giant air filter for Midtown Manhattan.[3] Bank of America Tower is the first skyscraper designed to attain a Platinum LEED Certification.[2]
The Bank of America tower is constructed using a concrete manufactured with slag, a byproduct of blast furnaces. The mixture used in the tower concrete is 55% cement and 45% slag. The use of slag cement reduces damage to the environment by decreasing the amount of cement needed for the building, which in turn lowers the amount of carbon dioxide greenhouse gas produced through normal cement manufacturing. (One ton of cement produced emits about one ton of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.)[4]
Control of the temperature of Bank of America's tower, and the production of some of its energy, will be done in an environmentally-friendly manner. Insulating glass will reduce thermal loss somewhat, which will lower energy consumption and increase transparency. Carbon dioxide sensors will signal increased fresh air ventilation, when elevated levels of carbon dioxide are detected in the building.
The cooling system will produce and store ice during off-peak hours, and then use ice phase transition to help cool the building during peak load, similar to the ice batteries in the 1995 Hotel New Otani in Tokyo Japan.[5] Ice batteries have been used since absorption chillers first made ice commercially 150 years ago, before the electric light bulb was invented.[6]
The tower has a 4.6-megawatt cogeneration plant, which will provide part of the base-load energy requirements. Onsite power generation reduces the significant electrical transmission losses that are typical of central power production plants.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I just get tired of useless comments. You know? If you have something useful to contribute to a discussion than do so if not go to some other thread.
What was this supposed to accomplish:
| Quote: | | is your intention to insult? i could see you doing your own research |
So if you don't want negative responses don't make negative comments in the first place.
Yes I see the building has "Environmental Features". How do these address my questions?
| Quote: | | The tower has a 4.6-megawatt cogeneration plant, which will provide part of the base-load energy requirements |
4.6 megawatts is only part of the load? What is the actual energy consumption of this building? Is it really the best we can do?
Does Scottsdale really need this senior citizens center? Would it have been much more conservative to redesign existing facilities? Is having a large population out in the middle of a desert really a good idea? Lake Mead is being drained fast.
It seems to me that if we are really going to make progress in reducing carbon emissions in an expanding population than conservation will have to mean really conserving.
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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being the richest greenest city around with a fairly old population i think it is within there budget and anything witch does not really exist being retrofitted would never meet the energy performance, tight building envelope and indoor air quality goals they aimed for.
even at that megawatts they would run auxiliary power most stores have this ability and on site generation
what if it was mandated that every store had to run in axillary power mode x hours a day? haha! LEED 4.0?
i feel like i contributed plenty if you don't feel so that is your feelings and as we know nobody owns anybody else's 
lets hope it rains soon then. Roosevelt is not so bad as Mead
there are many old and new solutions for cooling in hot dry climates, maybe we have something to learn from the Iranians.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yes you latest post are all contributing. I was only continuing the discussion about why I jumped on your first post.
I guess the main point about these buildings I'm trying to make is that they generally represent excess.
If our only goal is to save a little energy than these are actually good buildings. If our goal is to stop global warming and clean up the environment than these buildings fall far short of the mark.
The fact is you can't make a more energy efficient senior citizens building than by not building one in the first place. I think senior citizens have gotten along pretty well in the past few thousand years without one.
Why is it that today we don't seem to imagine a life not full of stuff.
Houses that aren't 3000 sq. ft. or more
Companies that go into cities that have space available and improving the efficiency of that existing space instead of building new.
etc...
This current way of doing things isn't going to make any kind of real difference in the immediate future. It simply will not meet the goals that the scientist estimate that we need to solve the current potential future problems.
| Quote: | | being the richest greenest city around with a fairly old population i think it is within there budget and anything witch does not really exist being retrofitted would never meet the energy performance, tight building envelope and indoor air quality goals they aimed for. |
Are you talking about Phoenix? How do you figure Phoenix is green? They are using water resources faster than can be replenished, they have very little wood, food or any other resources. It seems to me that before oil came along deserts did not sustain large communities.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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here is my breakthrough design for a sustainable senior center:
(of coarse the grass needs to be replaces with natural vegetation)
Which design do you think will solve the climate problem fastest?
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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haha
no i was talking about Scottsdale they are a early adopter of 'green' and have lots of incentives for it, i think Austin is in this same category. very bourgeois indeed, i mean who else could afford it.
so except for people like my mom who choses to live on a raw foods vegetarian diet in the primitive.
I see what you are saying and i think you would like to talk more to my mother than me about this as she lives one of the most sustainable existence of anybody i know. humanure composting, self sufficiency (the reason i have lived with solar since 1983), gardening, livestock, adobe building and more.
even then when she has a car and a cell phone she is still connected and part of the problem.
i think most people understand the problem of excess but have allot of apathy because we also know that omnicide based on our, and our dead relatives who started the industrial revolution, actions seems inevitable having observed the current trends.
the focus being more on a immediate quality of life for the individual mostly and that has no long term benefit like the Iroquois 7th generation principles.
because we are over populated it is not possible to escape the reality that is built around us so while we may know how to exist meagerly and basic one less.......... well there is lots of thinking to be done, until&if we can escape from the clutches of disaster capitalism.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, that's my point. This little shed is what we are going to need to fix the problem everyone is talking about whereas LEED does almost nothing. The best LEED building is such a joke that it is really a pointless exercise in self denial.
On the other hand I don't think we are at the point of needing to live in cardboard boxes. We just need to start doing things that make since and that begins with facing reality.
If it was just a matter of a few feet of rising sea level I might say we can deal with it. But the truth is we have many more problems than that. Just the fact that oil is running out and our entire infrastructure is built on oil should scare the hell out of people.
All LEED does at the moment is pacify people into believing that we can go on exactly like we have been and technology is somehow going to make everything work out. So we end up not doing any of the things we are going to need to do to have an easy transition into a lower carbon more ecologically stable world.
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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i do think it takes some important steps to bring the awareness of the categories to earn points and their importance
but as long as anybody is able to build the traditional unsustainable ways we are going to keep having a problem.
i do think LEED helps allot, but only so far.
locally sourced materials
water conservation
site sustainability
energy conservation
indoor air quality
as we remove dangers we will be able to think more clear, having better mental health
and oh yes vegetarianism would also be among the biggest positive impacts on earth we could make, go back to our pre-fire diet.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | and oh yes vegetarianism would also be among the biggest positive impacts on earth we could make, go back to our pre-fire diet. |
Most definitely. (this makes a huge impact on the environment)
Yes I agree LEED isn't all bad. But this does not excuse them from identifying the real problems and real solutions. By not acknowledging the problem we can't plan for it properly.
In my own view I think we Americans need to realize that we share this planet with 7 billion people and growing. For most of the past century we got a pretty large share of the pie. Now India, China and Africa also want a bigger slice.
We complain about China and their problems and then don't account for the fact that the West is largely funding and condoning their practices by buying cheap goods which don't require them to account for how they are made.
I really don't think we realize how much we depend on oil and that it really is running out very quickly. We simply do not have anything that can replace it economically.
The real emergency here is that we need to transition as soon as possible into a society that does not need oil. Coal will make an extremely bad replacement. Certainly renewable and nuclear energy will help but these are expensive and have other problems.
So clearly, I think the best solution is to conserve. We can all have a great life that way while insuring future generations also have one by easing into an oil-less and more environmentally friendly society.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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As a home designer I have to ask, why not make a house that uses natural resources like sun, wind and rain efficiently?
Is my life actually better because I live in a 3250 sq. ft. house with just my wife? I don't think so. If I had it to do over again I would build a much smaller house that is in tune with nature.
We have so much waste in our lives and waste is never good.
Some folks believe that the free market is a natural system and so will correct for things like oil supply on it's own. -They are correct.
But I ask -Do we want to depend on nature? Nature is a harsh place. The reason we have society is because we want protection from nature. I think it is far better to take an holistic approach to managing our world.
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Antisthenes
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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every home doing that would be great
problem is we have so much standing product that will never reach this ability because of simple bad orientation and toxic materials,
also city codes and jurisdictions play allot into what can and can't be done
for instance parking requirements would make it impossible to have a car free village.
heck i think my 900 sq ft house is too much for me.
well we could make the reason for society now to protect nature to ensure survival, or not...
i will soon post a paper you will enjoy
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