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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1129
Location: Nice, France
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: Christian Faith & 9/11: an American breakthrough ? |
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Why would one of America's largest Church organisations (or the largest ?) publish a book as described below unless they were confident about what it had to say ?
| Quote: | Presbyterian Church publishes 9/11 conspiracy theory
Malaysia Sun
Tuesday 8th August, 2006
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)'s publishing arm has released a book that says President Bush organized New York's Sept. 11 attacks.
The decision by the 160-year-old Westminster John Knox Press, the trade and academic publishing imprint of the Presbyterian Publishing Corp., to attribute the attacks on the World Trade Center brings into the U.S. religious mainstream a conspiracy theory long held by the world's jihadists.
In 'Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action,' author David Ray Griffin calls the United States the world's 'chief embodiment of demonic power, says he initially scoffed at 9/11 conspiracy theories.
But after investigating he concluded that the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition, military personnel were given stand-down orders not to intercept hijacked flights and the 9/11 Commission, ostensibly created to uncover the truth behind the events of 9/11, 'simply ignored evidence' that the administration was involved in the attacks.
Griffin further asserts that such events such as that of 9/11 are part of a long history of 'false-flag attacks,' attacks orchestrated by governments against their own people to garner popular support for military action.
Griffin is a professor at California's Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Graduate University, and a codirector of the Center for Process Studies. |
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1697
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Publishers owned by all sorts of groups print what they think will sell.
Much as I would like to know the worst, whatever it may be, I really think the orthodox truths of 9/11 -- that America was and is unprepared to understand its place in the (new ?) world, and that the current administration has capitalized on this tragedy for its own ends -- is quite bad enough, and will require all our wits, undistracted, to overcome.
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"I'm the commander . . . see, I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation." GWB |
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Ed Ziomek
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Beyond Silly |
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The quotation is beyond stupidity, laughable if not so tragically putrid...
...."But after investigating he concluded that the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition, military personnel were given stand-down orders not to intercept hijacked flights and the 9/11 Commission, ostensibly created to uncover the truth behind the events of 9/11, 'simply ignored evidence' that the administration was involved in the attacks."
I am on the side of America knowing that bad guys were in the country, and were too inept and disorganized to do anything about it... I personally had read a published press report in August 2001 that some nameless (at that time) creep wannabe terrorist was planning a "catastrophic attack" on the United States.
What I still find curious is on the midnight of July 10/11, 2001, 7 hours before the hijacking, I was at Newark doing my taxi thing...and I was late... I looked at my watch...exactly 5 minutes to 12...
A curious site unfolded...a religious cleric of some sort was coming down the escalator wearing what I thought was Russian Orthodox robes... grey tunic, grey/white top hat...I remarked to the guy next to me..."Who the hell is this?"
"Thats a 'haleefa', the most important Islamic person in his country"
"Do you mean like a pope?"
"No, we don't have Popes, we have Haleefas, the most important Islamic person in his country."
Two buryly sized suited guys came down the escalator with him, one with a lumbering walk.
Not that I will ever know, but as I informed the FBI about the striking resemblances of the two suits to one of the hijackers. Later reports had it that some Islamic leaders had left the country "the day before" 9-11, which seems so puzzling...what did they know? (Possibly nothing!!!)
It was also reported that two of the hijackers had left a topless bar right outside of Newark airport, exactly at 12 midnight. Where these the same two "suits" I saw, meeting and greeting the cleric?
At what point does my imagination take shape and cloud what I see, and what I read, and what I have tried to forget?
We keep beating ourselves up about what could have been done (too much), what was real and unreal (too much), what was not done (too much), and certainly what needs to be done (too much).
I choose to look at the present and future...what can I do today...to help in the healing and understanding process? What am I doing right? What am I doing wrong? And what is being done in the name of America?
And let me give my 2 cent contribution...which I realized after much deliberating on the peculiar events 7 hours before 9-11..."There is no Pope!!!"
There seems to be no singular Islamic voice. Each region may have a different flavor of Islam. Each city may have a different Mullah who controls his area of jurisdiction. How much control does Sistani have in Iraq? How much control does Nisrallah have? Or al-Sadr of Iraq?
'Cinderella' me suggests... gee whiz...Islamics, please, for your own sake, can you convene your groups to the point of some cohesive, organized, self-regulating point of view? Or do you have a chaotic structure...every region does its own thing, some moderate, some aggressive?
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Ed Ziomek |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1697
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Based as they are on collections of fantasies and legends, with a strong component of social wish-fulfillment (in my view), how could we expect ANY religion to effectively govern either itself or the larger society in which it dwells ?
If theocracy worked, why would there be any need of civil government ?
Crudely stated, those are my thoughts. . . |
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Architorture
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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oh what do those bible thumpers know?
i mean they believe some guy woke from the dead and rose up to heaven to rule the universe... obviously a huge government conspiracy to take out 2 little towers isn't that hard to fathom |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1129
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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The difficulty of the state and religion is hardly new.
Is it really so difficult to understand more extreme views when people are being attacked ? Religion was in effect banned under Communism but when the Nazis attacked Soviet Russia even Stalin understood the need to re-open the Churches.
Nobody could describe Saddam's Iraq as in any way theocratic - now religion has become central to the country. (Like bombing the Maronites in Lebanon .... Christians are not normally described as Muslim Fundamentalists ...).
As for the Bible-thumpers, it appears that few of them have read, much less understood, what they are thumping.
However miracles do happen: two planes, and three towers fell down. Is this where engineering gets religion ?
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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aamp
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 37
Location: portugal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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what seems funny to me is that a large enough 'christian' organization would find blame in man rather than chalk this one up to god's will...
and if you're truly out to get GWB and pin the dunce cap on him, shouldn't that be evidence enough, your longing to lynch him that is, that he probably wasn't intelligent enough to carry this out? hmmm?
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lacerda gafner, arquitectos
LISBOA portugal |
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usarender
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: No relationship whatsoever |
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I would say not every Bible thumping individual would hold such an extreme view, that somehow Bush was involved in a conspiracy.
There are strange ideas that circulate everywhere, and the church is no exception. This is no excuse for personal attacks against the government or religion, just because there are wackos and Wacko Texas weirdos who come up with strange ideas, religions and conspiracy views.
The key is being able to discern between a conspiracy theory and the reality as unfolding before our eyes. Many times people confuse the two. |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 594
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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because they already know their readers are sheep who believe lies very easy
baaa
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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usarender
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: Mindless Sheep or Thinking Creative Individuals? |
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People equated with mindless "sheep", who can do no thinking?
I embrace all types of thinking and attacks against religion are not on my agenda.
If there are serious arguments against the ideas, they can be presented in a legitimate discussion rather in simplistic comparisons, or general system assumptions that classifies all individuals as falling into one particular group or way of thinking. One cannot place the entire body of a classification into a the same box, no matter how detailed the classification may appear to be.
Groups of individuals, their systems and beliefs are way to complex to be grouped into simplistic definitions.
Now, the idea of a sheep is also distorted. "Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves" is a way it should be, according to the original idea. The follower as a sheep is in the sense of a pastor to sheapard an innocent flock, not a stupid de intellectualized flock with no brains. Rather, flocks from different tribes and nations, that although multi colored, multi raced, are in the same need of direction in a world of confusion and multiplicity of religious views. |
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 594
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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but when it comes down to it we are all Brights and it is just that some people don't know it yet.
_________________
The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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